Mail Log for Choosing Initial Project Proposal
From escargo Tue Jan 6 09:56:29 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 09:56:27 CST
From: escargo (David S. Cargo)
To: ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu, corey@itlabs.umn.edu, deng0019@tc.umn.edu
Subject: class project and notes
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This is partly a test of our e-mail connection (and my handwriting
interpretation).
I thought I should mention that I have a personal web page,
http://www.skypoint.com/members/escargo/index.html, and a bookmarks file,
http://www.skypoint.com/members/escargo/bookmarks.html. The bookmarks
file, which is large, has a section devoted to the tcl/tk language.
One page I link to is that of Eric Foster-Johnson, the author of one
of the recommended books (he's local and he answers questions).
I was thinking that I could add a page where we could archive info
having to do with our project.
I plan to work on some project proposals to put onto this page tonight.
In summary, some of the projects I thought of are (1) a program to help
manage links for a web site, (2) a program to convert mail archives into
HTML pages multiply indexed and linked by date, subject, and author, and
(3) a program for managing a pizza business.
Let a thousand flowers bloom!
dsc
From ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu Tue Jan 6 13:12:20 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:14:34 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jeffrey M. Rye"
To: "David S. Cargo"
Subject: Re: class project and notes
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I just got to work and received your email.
Your project ideas are great. I was thinking (and I don't know if these
are good ideas or not) of the following.
* A game -- specifically, I used to play a game called Scorch (you launch
missiles in a parabolic trajectory at your opponents). When I got my
Pentium 166, it was impossible to play because it went too fast, and you
were not allowed to enter by hand your trajectory. I think we could do a
really great version of this game (a lot of creativity can go into the
weapons).
* How about a CD player for a computer. There is a lot of opportunity
for a great program here, the only problem is that a lot of them already
exist.
* Or maybe a utility to generate equations to be pasted in a word
document.
Let me know what you think.
Jeff
ryex0006@gold.tc.umn.edu
ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu
jrye@pigchamp.caps.umn.edu
From escargo Tue Jan 6 14:05:19 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 14:05:17 CST
From: escargo (David S. Cargo)
To: ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu
Subject: Re: class project and notes
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Status: RO
Games are interesting. I wouldn't mind doing a game if it were
one I wanted to play myself. (I have always wanted a solitaire game
with infinite undo.)
I don't know the characteristics of the machines our project needs to
run on, but tcl/tk doesn't have sound support built in.
Whatever project we choose, I want it to be useful to me (and useful
to other people as well, of course).
Since I'm going to be doing web sites (and therefore need to manage
links), and part of one of the web sites is a mail and news archive
(and therefore needs to provide access to that mail and news), my
thoughts quickly turned in that direction.
Think how our project log would be enhanced by having a searchable
archive of mail discussing all the project history, including any
discussions we had. The project would document itself. Remember
one of the rules the instructor mentioned in class: If the developers
have to use the tool themselves, the tool will work.
dsc
From ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu Tue Jan 6 17:17:13 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:16:11 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jeffrey M. Rye"
To: "David S. Cargo"
Subject: Re: class project and notes
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Status: RO
Good call. I think that writing a tool such as you suggested is a good
idea. I had thought of a game before because that is something I would
use. I think that your idea fits our project better.
If I think of anything else, I will drop you an email, otherwise I will
see you at lecture tomorrow.
Jeff
ryex0006@gold.tc.umn.edu
ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu
jrye@pigchamp.caps.umn.edu
From ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu Wed Jan 7 11:21:52 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:21:34 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jeffrey M. Rye"
To: "David S. Cargo"
Subject: Re: class project and notes
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Status: RO
I just got an idea for our project that may or may not be useful. What
about an interface for grep? Or a program that can be used for searching
for a string (like grep) and then editing the files. Or maybe something
to simplify chmod, I could use that.
Please note, I am not trying to say I don't like your idea, I am just
trying to give us as many options as I can.
Jeff
ryex0006@gold.tc.umn.edu
ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu
jrye@pigchamp.caps.umn.edu
From escargo Wed Jan 7 11:45:00 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 98 11:44:59 CST
From: escargo (David S. Cargo)
To: escargo@anubis.network.com, ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu
Subject: Re: class project and notes
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Status: RO
Don't worry; I'm not taking your suggestions as criticism. I think
we need to collectively sit down and determine what criteria to use
to decide what project to do (like, how interesting is it, how useful
is it, how much work is it). Then we take all the suggested projects
we have, score them, and then compare the scores. That would tell us
which one to work on.
So, at this stage, no project suggestion is inappropriate.
dsc
From ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu Wed Jan 7 15:43:01 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:42:49 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jeffrey M. Rye"
To: "David S. Cargo"
Subject: Re: class project and notes
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Status: RO
Good, I didn't think you would take the suggestions the wrong way.
Have we had any suggestions from our other two potential group members?
Jeff
On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, David S. Cargo wrote:
> Don't worry; I'm not taking your suggestions as criticism. I think
> we need to collectively sit down and determine what criteria to use
> to decide what project to do (like, how interesting is it, how useful
> is it, how much work is it). Then we take all the suggested projects
> we have, score them, and then compare the scores. That would tell us
> which one to work on.
>
> So, at this stage, no project suggestion is inappropriate.
>
> dsc
>
From escargo Wed Jan 7 16:01:21 1998
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 98 16:01:15 CST
From: escargo (David S. Cargo)
To: ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu
Subject: Re: class project and notes
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Status: RO
Corey mentioned something about procmail.
dsc
From ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu Fri Jan 9 13:47:33 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:46:49 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jeffrey M. Rye"
To: "David S. Cargo"
Subject: Another project idea
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I just thought today that it would be useful to have a text editor
running on my desktop computer, that will edit files on an ITLABS
machine.
Specifically, I was editing a C file using emacs in a telnet window.
That is painful. I can only modify one file at a time, I cannot use the
backspace key, I need to exit to compile, and I cannot cut and paste to
and from other Windows apps.
I think it would be easy enough to use FTP to do the file operations on
the remote machine, and keep a temporary copy of the file on the local
machine while doing the editing.
This could save a lot of time for people like me who would prefer not to
use FTP more than we need to.
Jeff
ryex0006@gold.tc.umn.edu
ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu
jrye@pigchamp.caps.umn.edu
From escargo Fri Jan 9 13:59:11 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 98 13:59:01 CST
From: escargo (David S. Cargo)
To: ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu
Subject: Re: Another project idea
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Status: RO
If you are using emacs, you can use emacs to do all the things you wanted
to do. You can use multiple emacs buffers to edit multiple files. You
can use "M-X shell" to start a shell session on your remote machine.
(You use "C-X 2" to split your window, and "C-X b" to switch between
buffers. (As best as I can recall, I have been using emacs-style editors
for about 20 years now, though I can't claim any great depth in my
understanding.))
If both systems support X Windows, you can set your DISPLAY variable
on your remote machine to your local display and then have emacs run
your local display. I infer from your comment about "other Windows apps"
that your desktop computer is not a UNIX (or Linux) box.
> I think it would be easy enough to use FTP to do the file operations on
> the remote machine, and keep a temporary copy of the file on the local
> machine while doing the editing.
Actually, it's harder than you think. Either your local application has
to implement FTP (nontrivial) or control another application local to
your machine that implements FTP (also nontrivial if you want it to work
crossplatform).
Again it's a matter of determining how we are going to decide on how we
are going to decide what application to attempt. For the basics of what
you want, emacs itself can do most of it.
dsc
From escargo Mon Jan 12 11:41:54 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 98 11:41:53 CST
From: escargo (David S. Cargo)
To: ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu
Subject: Re: Another project idea
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Status: RO
Apologies if my previous replies seemed harsh; that wasn't my intent.
I just remembered that in fact there is an editor that might do what
you want. Epsilon, from Lugaru Software, Ltd.
, has "Internet support," which includes
asynchronous file retrival using FTP, remote directory editing, and
running a telnet session.
There's a free evaluation copy available. (It expires in March.)
dsc
From ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu Tue Jan 13 14:25:26 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:24:50 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jeffrey M. Rye"
To: "Corey L. Carlson"
Cc: escargo@nsco.network.com, dang0019@itlabs.umn.edu,
bhokanson@che2.che.umn.edu
Subject: CSci 5110
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Pretty soon we will need to choose what we are going to do our project
on. It seems that we have a couple of strong possibilities, and maybe
some other weaker ideas.
To the best of my knowledge, our strongest ideas so far are:
1. A program that will talk email archives and convert them into an html
format, so that the archives can be read publicly.
(Idea from David)
2. A text editor that can edit remote files, so that I don't need to run
emacs through a telnet window.
(Idea from me)
In addition, I proposed writing a simple game. I wanted to base it off
of a shareware game I used to play when I had a slower computer. It's
interface was poor enough so that it became impossible to play on a
computer faster than a 486. And since I miss playing it, I thought it
would be nice to write a new version.
I think I may have sent more ideas to David before we had our group
figured out, but I don't think any of them were worth considering.
Corey, Bob, and Quang. If you have any ideas for our project, please
send them out. Even if they don't sound promising, maybe your ideas will
result in us thinking of the perfect project. In addition, if you have
thoughts on the ideas listed above, please send them too.
Jeff
ryex0006@gold.tc.umn.edu
ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu
jrye@pigchamp.caps.umn.edu
From bhokanson@che2.che.umn.edu Tue Jan 13 16:12:55 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:06:43 -0600
To: "Jeffrey M. Rye"
From: brad hokanson
Subject: CSci 5110 Project Topics
Cc: escargo@nsco.network.com, dang0019@itlabs.umn.edu, ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu,
corey@itlabs.umn.edu
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Adding my own two cents, from the non-programmers perspective:
1. the idea of a interface that converts email archives to a web page is
interesting and probably useful for a limited number of people. Does it
need and interface? Would it run just as well if it just ran or plugged
into your email program. One could do about the same thing with a data base
program and a form on a Mac (so simple that I know of it's use) and I
assume there is something in the way FrontPage handles threaded discussion
groups as well. (Neutral, rhetorical question that we have to answer is:)
Why does this need a graphical interface, particularly for the target users?
2. Given the massive popularity of a)PowerPoint/Persuasion type files in
corporate America, and b) the ubiqutous nature of the internet/HTML, how
about an interface that lets you put a sequential slide show together on
the net to be seen by a basic browser. It's easy in HTML, but to take that
ease down to an very casual user would be worthwile. And for more advanced
users, just the idea of having something set up to put in some text points,
and click someplace to go to the next one might be interesting.
3. The idea of a game is very interesting as there are all sorts of levels
of interactivity and the entire method is pretty wide open. It blends
interface with the entire game design, but may lead to some massive amounts
of work we may not want to get into. You guys know the game writing
environment...
4. The idea of having something to draw with is also interesting. I had a
contact here at the University who wanted a multimedia program that would
let students practice writing their Russian characters. See the letter,
write (draw) the letter. Can this be done in the canvas window? We could
get the real live contact, and he's shaking some tree for money, so maybe
later...One of my interests is speach synthesis and this could be tied in,
but even recorded sounds would be neat. Maybe I'm thinking too much
multimedia and not enough interface.
5. Interface for interface sake. Design/create something that does nothing,
but just does it. It's like exploring someplace and it goes in a number of
different places. Is Myst an interface? Is there really any point to that
game? Entertainment is a good task. This would be like Seinfield; no big
drama, but interesting and amusing along the way. (How to you know if it
succeeds? If people do it until they are late for something else.)
Ok, that's it for now.
brad
Brad Hokanson
UC Coordinator
Department of Design, Housing, and Apparel
University of MInnesota, St. Paul.
612.624.4918 voice
612.624.2750 fax
From ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu Wed Jan 14 11:37:38 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:36:59 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jeffrey M. Rye"
To: "Corey L. Carlson"
Cc: escargo@nsco.network.com, dang0019@itlabs.umn.edu,
bhokanson@che2.che.umn.edu
Subject: Project Ideas
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We still haven't heard anything from Quang or Corey on project ideas.
You guys out there somewhere?
If you could suggest some project ideas that would be great. Otherwise,
maybe you could give us some thoughts on my last email, and on Brad's
reply.
See you at class tonight.
Jeff
ryex0006@gold.tc.umn.edu
ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu
jrye@pigchamp.caps.umn.edu
From ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu Wed Jan 14 11:57:20 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:56:52 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jeffrey M. Rye"
To: "Corey L. Carlson"
Cc: escargo@nsco.network.com, dang0019@itlabs.umn.edu,
bhokanson@che2.che.umn.edu
Subject: Project Ideas
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A few more thoughts on project ideas.
We have several:
- Mail Archive to HTML
- Remote Text Editor
- Game
- Sequential Slide Show Program
- Russian Character Program
- Other Multimedia (speech synthesis?)
- Interface for interface sake
Also, I have thought about things we should consider when choosing our
topic. This is not a comprehensive list. I want youg guys to add other
criteria.
Can we write this program? (i.e. is the programming too complex, do we
not have the development tools we need?)
What platform should we use?
Do we know anyone who will use this program?
Are they willing to test our interface?
Has the interface been done before?
Can we do it better than any previous implementations?
I am going to bring this list in printed form to lecture.
Jeff
ryex0006@gold.tc.umn.edu
ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu
jrye@pigchamp.caps.umn.edu
From dang0019@gold.tc.umn.edu Wed Jan 14 15:46:00 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:45:36 -0600 (CST)
From: Quang-Tuyen Dang
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To: CSCI-5110 list
Subject: Software Requiments Specification Wizard
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Hello all.
How are you doing?
I have thought about the idea for a while and haven't shared it with
anyone. We can build a simple wizard which functions as a tool for
creating, sharing and collaborating Software Requirements Specification.
The reason for having such a tool is that the spec is usually the result
of the collaborative work of a group of technical and non-technical
people.
This tool will definitely help set a standard format as well as
components of the spec. Therefore, the standards reduce a lot of
miscommunication among those people. In addition, they help avoid wordy
specs that make the technical people a lot of non-sense feelings.
I guess Microsoft has some software called project manager which just
manages the project as a whole regarding goals, purposes, deadlines and
responsibilities. A spec requires a lot more information to be organized
and understood.
How does that sound to all of you? Brad: I do not know if you have any
experiences in software development, so I appologize if this does not
make sense to you. If you need any additional info, we call talk as a
group in class today.
Sincerely,
Quang
From ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu Thu Jan 15 15:41:47 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:33:54 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jeffrey M. Rye"
To: calvin-ui98@dagobah.stwing.upenn.edu
Subject: Editor Proposal
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I wrote the proposal for the editor.
It is posted at:
www.itlabs.umn.edu/~ryex0006/editor.html
You guys are smart enough to figure out where my web page is...but I am
rather embarassed about it being so slipshod. If you do look at it,
understand that its main purpose is to facilitate my sending stuff home
from work. In addition, I have only been writing HTML for 1 and a half
days now, so don't be too mean about it. :)
If you feel that this proposal is good, but there are some things that we
would need to do differently if we choose this project, let me know.
Otherwise, if you have other opinions, good or bad, send email to me so I
know what everyone is thinking.
Jeff
ryex0006@gold.tc.umn.edu
ryex0006@itlabs.umn.edu
jrye@pigchamp.caps.umn.edu
escargo@skypoint.com
Last modified: Fri Jan 16 18:32:02 CST 1998